Well, I failed

"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390) 08/06/2015 at 17:31 • Filed to: FMBD

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I’m about to say goodbye to the rest of my wallet!! At least I tried.......?

After tearing part of the J-boot to the intake manifold, “removing” the intake manifold, removing the air box cover, many vacuum lines, and the fuel rails and leaking fuel all over the damned engine and myself; all to simply remove two fucking sensors at the back of the engine and replace them, I just can’t do it by myself anymore.

5 fucking hours of bullshit and more stressful bullshit I can’t put up with anymore today. I’m calling a tow truck and having it towed to the shop I was supposed to drive and drop it off at tonight or tomorrow morning so they can deal with this shit I can’t.

Fuck those two sensors. The only thing I was looking forward to today has now been fucking ruined. There's probably some upside to this(doubt it), I just don't care to see it.

AndyG_UK > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 17:34

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And breathe, it will all seem better come tomorrow.

jkm7680 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 17:36

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I’m sure there’s at least one friendly local Opponaut who’s willing to drop by and help out! Don’t get discouraged, working on cars is infuriating and makes me angry, but I still love doing it.

Master Cylinder > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 17:37

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Those sensors are evil. When I pulled the motor out of my previous 944, they were stuck so bad that they broke in half during removal, after having soaked in penetrating oil for a good two weeks. I was parting the car, so I didn’t care too much, but I feel your pain. They are terrible.

itschrome > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 17:38

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Trying and failing is better than failing to try at all. And remember it’s through failure we learn the most.

TylerLinner > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 17:40

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Upside: The shop will probably fix it for ya. :)

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > itschrome 08/06/2015 at 17:43

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But I didn’t learn a damned thing doing this. Other than the fact that those sensors will never be worth my time fixing in the future.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > AndyG_UK 08/06/2015 at 17:44

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I’m not so sure.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > jkm7680 08/06/2015 at 17:46

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I’ve been discouraged enough this week. Never has a job been so infuriating. Not even doing a timing belt was as stressful as this shit, that’s just not ever right.

WiscoProud > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 17:47

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What kind of sensors are you replacing? Also, aside from this, how has your Porsche ownership been? There are a bunch of them on CL by me, and I'm periodically tempted

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > TylerLinner 08/06/2015 at 17:47

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Probably not by then end of tomorrow though...

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > WiscoProud 08/06/2015 at 17:49

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Speed and Reference Sensors: aka, the sensors you never want to change on your own....EVER.

Ownership had been all fun, whimsical, and a great learning experience. Until this week happened.

DrScientist > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 17:50

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what are the sensors exactly?

and it seems the only real damage youve done is tearing the j boot cover (whatever that may be. :) )

anyway... sometimes you need to just de-stress and look at again the next day.

is there any reason besides frustration that you can not still remove/replace the sensors?

also... i know youre among the younger guys on here, but are you 21? because whiskey can be your friend in these situations—AFTER youve put the tools aside for the day.

TylerLinner > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 17:51

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Once you resign yourself to lengthy, complicated fixes, you’ll be much happier with classic Volkswa- ahem, Porsche- ownership. Coming from experience. Luckily, my local shop was proficient with Bosch CIS.

WiscoProud > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 17:52

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Sorry for the tough break. I think anyone who has ever attempted to dig into their own vehicle has had them. I have a gas tank skid sitting in my garage that I have yet to attempt. While technically it should be easy, the reality is it will be very dirty work.

itschrome > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 17:54

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see, you did learn a a thing! you also learned what not to do!

Textured Soy Protein > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 18:02

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Don’t feel bad, just watch this video and you’ll be in a better mood right away.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > TylerLinner 08/06/2015 at 18:06

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It shouldn’t even be fucking difficult. I remove the two retaining bolts for both sensors, remove those bitches, index and insert the new ones and thats fucking it. A 5 year old who knows to put squares in squares and circles in circles could do this FFS.

TylerLinner > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 18:09

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Yep. Kind of like putting the exhaust manifold bolts on a Mk1 Rabbit counterflow 1.7L. You just TRY to get that socket back there, THEN start the bolts. I dare you, mortal!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > DrScientist 08/06/2015 at 18:09

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Speed and reference sensors, if they don’t work, the engine doesn’t work.

It’s the rubber tube thing that connects the airflow sensor to the intake manifold.

Too late for de-stressing, the damage has already been done.

They just will not come out.

I just turned 20 today, and this is not how I wanted the rest of my birthday to go at all. This just killed the day for me.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Textured Soy Protein 08/06/2015 at 18:10

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I hate rap.

Textured Soy Protein > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 18:11

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Ok, maybe this then? I got nothing.

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 18:17

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Message me if you want to come have a beer. I’ll be drinking my way through the Republican debate tonight

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Santiago of Escuderia Boricua 08/06/2015 at 18:26

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Republican debate?

Buckner > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 18:28

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Relax, you just need this handy tool.

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 18:29

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The first Republican primary debate is tonight at 9. It’s going to be a shit show. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/…

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Santiago of Escuderia Boricua 08/06/2015 at 18:33

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Oh god, I don’t even watch politics anymore. I can’t stand it or the news.

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 18:37

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Yeah I get most of my news from the internet or the daily show. Some schadenfreude is fun every now and then

wkiernan > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 18:37

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Ah well, at least your hands are not bleeding all over the place. Like my right hand was the last time I had to bolt in something that was mounted in the too-narrow gap between the engine and the firewall on my car. Of course I couldn’t see what I was doing, I was working by feel, and I couldn’t get it, I couldn’t get it, I couldn’t get it, again and again the nut I was trying to get seated kept slipping out of my hand and falling in the dirt below, the rain coming down was getting harder, so I lost my temper and swearing like a sailor, pain be damned, I just crammed my hand in there, right over the sharp edged I don’t know what, and finally got the fucking nut started where I could finish tightening it with a wrench. You should have seen it, blood everywhere, it looked like a crime scene on teevee.

Why the fuck the guys who design cars don’t leave enough room to get at things you’ll have to replace someday, I will never know. Fuckers. Looking back on it, I see you have more sense than I did; I should have just given up and taken it to a professional mechanic.

OttoMaddox > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 18:38

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Buck up son. Take a few days off, go to whatever Porsche forum is geared towards the water cooled models, and search the posts for info on changing these sensors. Read and study them, ask questions, look at the pictures and diagrams. Then order the shop manuals on CD.

Twenty years ago when I was your age I attempted to rebuild the front suspension of my Alfa Romeo Spider. I called the tow truck halfway through because I couldn’t figure out how to reinstall the springs. There was no internet at the time so I couldn’t Google it, had no access to shop manuals, and I was at the mercy of a rather crooked Alfa repair shop which took so much of my money that I would have been better off buying a new one.

This year I did the front and rear suspension, brakes, exhaust, motor mounts, because I had all the information at my fingertips, and more patience.

You don’t know how good you have it.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > wkiernan 08/06/2015 at 18:40

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I think I would have rather finished this job with blood on my hands than sent it off like I did, I was at the point where anger outweighed any risks for harm. I should’ve kept going.

You clearly, truly had more sense than I had, and more of the sense I wanted.

Eberle-Hills-Cop > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 18:45

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And I thought I was having a hard time getting the brembos off my Sti!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > OttoMaddox 08/06/2015 at 18:48

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I’ve already been doing that all week. Rennlist, Pelican Parts, 944online, the whole lot of them, I have looked at my personal Haynes manual, and shop manuals in regards to task and looked at many diagrams and pictures as clarification. This is how I got to this point now.

I’ve already done struts, timing and balance shaft belts, and a cam tower gasket and seals before. They aren’t nearly as bad as this job has been.

I’m just now gonna figure out how to foot the bill for this one...

jkm7680 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 18:51

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It’s fine dude, even when things are hard it’s a learning experience, if anything you’ll leave with more appreciation of over engineering everything.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Master Cylinder 08/06/2015 at 18:56

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You are the only person who understands my rage right now. Not even a vice grip could get that first one out. I would have been happier if they broke in half. Better yet, I should have used my torch... That would have made me the happiest person alive today. Watch those fuckers burn and melt.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > jkm7680 08/06/2015 at 18:56

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There is absolutely nothing to appreciate about what they did with those damned sensors.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 19:00

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Hah at least your were attempting something of actual difficulty! I can’t even change the shocks on my damn vehicle... I would not beat yourself over this.

Master Cylinder > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 19:17

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Later bellhousings were notched so you didn’t have to remove the sensors to change the clutch. Imagine removing everything else to get at the clutch and then having to deal with those damn sensors before you could pull the bellhousing back from the engine... Probably the cause of at least a couple suspicious 944 fires.

PushToStart > Santiago of Escuderia Boricua 08/06/2015 at 19:19

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It’ll only be a shit show if you don’t laugh about it. I’ll be going for the discussion, and staying for the inevitable laugh-worthy Trump-isms.

jkm7680 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 19:20

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Maybe they appreciate your suffering?

RustedSprinter > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 19:24

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We cant catch a break can we K-Roll?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 08/06/2015 at 19:25

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I've done struts, I'd rather do that again than this. Struts would probably take me 2 hours now that I've done it once, rather than the 10 hours it took the first time.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > RustedSprinter 08/06/2015 at 19:26

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Not this week, no. (-_-)

RustedSprinter > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 19:28

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Im in the same boat with my MR2 lol I need to delete the EGR I hope that helps her.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > jkm7680 08/06/2015 at 19:35

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Who's they?

CaptDale - is secretly British > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 19:39

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Happy Birthday K-Roll!!! I hope you’re having fun now and worrying a little less about you r P-Car

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > RustedSprinter 08/06/2015 at 19:45

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What is EGR?

RustedSprinter > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 19:48

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Exhaust gas re circulation

itranthelasttimeiparkedit > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 20:45

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haha I learned that trying to do a few repairs on my boxster dude, its knowledge you will use again

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > TylerLinner 08/06/2015 at 21:16

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I could try.

AM3R shamefully returns > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 21:18

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At least you tried, seriously it's better than nothing. My friend just bought a 335i.. And I'm gonna help him install tons of engine mods (down pipes, charge pipe, FMIC, etc.) and I've never worked on a turbo car before. Looking forward to tons of swearing and after watching a few videos on DP installation, very very bloody knuckles.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 21:18

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Some battles aren’t worth fighting. Especially not with complex systems.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 08/06/2015 at 21:20

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If there is any consolation now that I’ve kinda mellowed out, I could see the bowels of the cylinders and valves and stuff.

That was kinda neat.

2BWise > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 21:34

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Dont sweat this one! Those sensors are damn near impossible. I had to rig these up in my office parking lot one afternoon just to get home. They don’t come out easy and will cause even more headache than you think. One upside is that you already saved a bit in labor by pulling the stuff that’s all in the way.

Some days these things suck the life out of you but in two weeks when you’re out cruising, windows down, it’ll all seem worth it. And eventually you’ll have been thru all the major failures and be confident that the car is solid. It took me nearly three years to get to the point where I was no longer afraid my 944 would leave me stranded.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 21:54

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Enjoy it. As much as I hated replacing all my header studs and risking setting my car on fire, it was a therapeutic process that helped me learn more about my car. I’m just really glad my car is much simpler that yours, I’d be less temped to wrench on that thing unless I really knew what I was doing.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > 2BWise 08/06/2015 at 22:02

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At first when I pulled out the first sensors retaining bolt after having them soak in PB Blaster for a day, I was thinking this was gonna be an easy fix and I’d be driving it to dinner tonight. That was one hell of false advertisement. elbow grease and vice grips failed to get the first one out, The second one closest to the firewall is at such a horrible angle, none of my sockets could get a clean fit on it without attempting to round the damn bolt!

True, I saved some labor tearing it all down, I put the bolts and such in separate bags but failed to indicate which bag is for which major part(intake ect.), so I’ll be running by the shop first thing in the morning to clarify that issue. Now the question is do I want them to take care of other potential unknowns while I’m there...

2BWise > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 22:38

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I ended up with a hammer and chisel to get them out then had to grind the new one to fit as there is a slight difference between some of the years.

Asking them to look for other unknowns could be dangerous for your wallet. Especially if you’re going thru Munks. Personally i think you’re probably better off finding things as you go.

2BWise > DrScientist 08/06/2015 at 22:42

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Basically a cam sensor. They are a pair. And trigger off the flywheel. The reference sensor times the ignitiom system at start up and the car won’t start without it. It is possible to fake the signal if you known the correct position. I managed to do this using the magnetic core of the original when I couldn’t remove it in my office parking lot.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 08/06/2015 at 22:42

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Well, I have a basic understanding of what to do, not so much what not to do, but I’d imagine you’d be able to wrench on it no problems.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > 2BWise 08/06/2015 at 22:45

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It’s more of my dad who wants to look for unknowns as he knows unlike his 911, I actually intend to rack up the miles. I’ve already done about 7000 miles in the 9 months I’ve owned the car.

I’m actually not using Munk’s this time, I’m using Steve’s European Automotive; just about 5 minutes down the road from Munk’s. I just like going to different shops, and my friend recommended I try this one as well. He bought his A4 from one of the employees there and said employee is a nice guy from my first meeting with him.

2BWise > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/06/2015 at 22:55

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I understand that one. My parents were similar especially considering my 944 was my only car in college and I was always at least 4 hours away. Fortunately, once you get to a certain point there are only so many things that can leave you stranded. I road side repaired my car several times just to get home. At one point I had an emergency set of tools and spares in the car in case of the worst. Hell I ran my car with a fuel pump jumper for three months.

7 months is still early in ownership. You’ll learn tons as you go and become more confident in diagnosing and repairing things as you go. I’ve been thru a lot of the trouble spots and major repairs on my old car so if you ever need some one to bounce ideas off or lend a hand let me know.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > 2BWise 08/06/2015 at 23:59

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A 944(Not this one, my uncle’s) almost became my only form of transportation my two years ago for my first year of college. His 300k mile+ ‘85.5, but that car is insanely sorted out and more reliable than mine despite being a year younger and 200k more miles on the odometer.

So far, I’ve fixed three(arguably four) things that could have left me stranded, how many more are left, I have no idea? I actually made a small emergency toolkit for “not at home” repairs using all the tools I used frequently when working on the to of the car, that includes granola.

If I have any ideas or random questions, I’ll be sure to send them your way, thanks much. :)

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/07/2015 at 09:26

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I hear you bro, I just snapped the trans cooler line on my 68 Montego last weekend trying to swap the radiator (new radiator is sweet though)

At least you can find parts. So far I have 2 options to order new lines and both are a gamble because they don’t technically list the Montego is an applicable model.

It sure as ALL HELL is frustrating, I get that. But, it’s part of the process and at the end you’ll probably end up loving it even more

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 08/09/2015 at 15:28

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You learned your limits, thats something